Alecia St. Germain 00:00
The word of the day is debt, and if it made you feel something, whether that's like your heart clenched up, or your stomach got tight, or it made you want to throw up, whether you have an opinion of debt is a way that you grow, or debt is something you never want to have. That is what we are talking about today in our monthly money talk with zengen. So let's dive in. Hey, you, leader, entrepreneur, business owner, solopreneur, whatever you call yourself. We know you're a visionary business builder, wealth seeker, looking to combine a passion for doing good with leading consciously. It's time to shift from a traditional focus of pure wealth accumulation to one that integrates well being and fulfillment. You're here for a purpose, and it's time to shine your light. So here we go. You
Alecia St. Germain 01:04
welcome back to the conscious edge podcast. I'm your host. Alecia St Germain, founder of the conscious edge, where I help women increase their capacity, emotionally, energetically, financially, so that business is sustainable and life is enjoyable. Jen boss, welcome back. Thanks to see you. You too. I love these monthly Money Talks. I'm so glad we started doing these. For anyone who doesn't know who you are, please tell them Absolutely.
Jennifer Baas 01:37
My name is Jen boss, and I have peak to peak solutions, and I help small business owners navigate the financial ups and downs of small business ownership. So whether that's on the accounting side and bookkeeping or in more strategic consulting and CFO services, I think
Alecia St. Germain 01:54
we've been doing monthly Money talks now, I think for six months. Can you believe that something like that. This is a great month. It is. Yeah. So Jen boss is my financial strategist. She functions as a fractional CFO for my company, and has helped completely transform how I feel about numbers going from I'm not good at them, I don't know what I'm looking at and feeling very helpless to empowered, and now bringing her into the conscious edge where she runs the financial leadership lab for my clients, so that they can then also have that same empowerment that I've experienced working with you. So nothing but love for this woman. She's amazing. I cannot tell you the number of people that reach out to me and say, can you make an introduction, please?
02:44
Oh, that's so sweet. I love it.
Alecia St. Germain 02:47
So I want to talk about debt today, because it came up last week in a coaching call. I was working with a client through a map we do Immunity to Change mapping, where we discover what is a big assumption you might be making about the world and the way you exist in it that makes you think, feel and act in certain ways that are counter to what you really want to achieve in the world. And one of the things that we uncovered is that she had been using debt as a way to not have to have difficult conversations push herself outside of maybe going and making more revenue in order to get what she wants. It's like just a very easy way to have what I want and not have to ask anybody's permission, and not have to get outside of my comfort zone. And it was a huge like, loving hard truths. That's what we call as when we have those moments where it's like a gut punch, it's like a loving hard truth, and very grateful and gracious for it. But also, she was like, oh, and I know she's not the only one doing this.
04:03
She's definitely not, I can assure you of that.
Alecia St. Germain 04:07
So about a month ago, you reached out to me and kind of had a similar question, or you were really curious about the mindset side of it, of like, why someone would keep propping things up with debt. Can you speak into that a little bit of what you see on your side of things around debt?
Jennifer Baas 04:30
Yeah, absolutely. And I was very curious, as I'm really interested to have this conversation and get your perspective, because what I really commonly see is business owners who are using debt, like you said, as a way of propping up their business. Debt can be magical in the sense that it can kind of artificially fix things, and when we have debt at our disposal, all of a sudden, we don't feel the pain of things that truly aren't working. Thing. And so what I was a little fascinated by, and I'm curious to get your perspective on, is, once you get in there and start educating the business owner and kind of showing them these things, sometimes there's still a reluctance to change and a reluctance to take the really hard steps to kind of fundamentally fix what's going wrong in the business and that what debt is propping up. So I see it so commonly, yeah, and
Alecia St. Germain 05:27
it's kind of our culture. We were talking about how available debt is in our culture, it's pretty easy to get and unsecured, secured secured borrowing from private sources, and more and more, like you see it all the time with Kickstarter campaigns, all kinds of things. So I think my question before I like Weigh Down on my side of things, I definitely have some thoughts around it, is there are appropriate times to use debt, and 100% not appropriate times to use debt. Let's talk about when it is appropriate to use debt, because one side of the coin is the person who has some big assumptions about debt and how bad it is, and what it might mean, and how much that can actually slow their growth and make their journey harder. So let's talk about that side first.
Jennifer Baas 06:30
Yeah, absolutely. I think that there are some really wonderful ways that debt can help in business, because the reality is that running a business is expensive, and if you're thinking about starting a business and the amount of capital it might take service businesses like mine and yours, the investment is a little lower. But if you want to be a plumber or have these other businesses, there can be a lot of capital that it can take to truly start a business. And so when we think about using debt in the right way, some of the things that I think about is having a specific purpose for that debt. So maybe in the case of a startup, it's funding some equipment purchases and some working capital, but also having a plan for how that debt can be repaid. I know we've talked a number of times about going back to like the spreadsheet and pen and paper of having a plan for things. So if we have a business and we feel like we need to take debt out for a particular reason, also being able to say, in six months, I'm going to be generating enough cash flow that I can make the payments or pay this off in a specific period of time. And that's a common missing gap, because debt is relatively easy to acquire, that people take on that debt, and they don't really think about the fact that now we have to not just earn enough profit to pay ourselves and have healthy profit, but now we have to pay off a couple $100,000 or half a million dollars, and that can really start to stack up and become overwhelming. So having a purpose for the debt and having some parameters and plan around repaying it, I think are really important. I think some things to stay away from is using debt in a way that plugs a hole in the business but doesn't fix it. So that goes to kind of like, what is that purpose of the debt that we're taking out, we need to purchase a vehicle, and vehicles are really expensive these days, and so we utilize a car loan, and we can cover the payoff plan and everything like that. That's very different than like we're not making ends meet, and we're not going to do the work to fix that component. And so we're just going to get working capital or lines of credit and stuff to just start plugging that gap.
Alecia St. Germain 08:42
So it's like, if you're gonna keep doing the same thing you've been doing and take on debt so that you can keep doing the same thing you've been doing, that's not gonna work. But if no
Jennifer Baas 08:55
and what happens? What makes me actually really sad is a lot of times what happens is the debt plugs the hole. They keep operating the way that they've been operating. They burn through that debt in the exact same position that they were, but now they owe 200 500 a million dollars, and now they're looking at, if they can't figure that out, they're looking at bankruptcy, or they're looking at some really difficult things, instead of just, hey, this business isn't working. So the debt becomes this overwhelming pressure, and it kind of psychs you out for a period of time, where I'm like, oh, things are fine, and I can even pay myself, and I can do these things. But if we haven't fixed that fundamental problem of why we needed the debt, we can end up in a pickle pretty easily.
Alecia St. Germain 09:40
Got it Okay, so if I'm thinking about the good side of debt, obviously you want to look at this is where running a budget is so important. And I go back to this. I started doing budgets last year. You and I started having conversations. And we talked a few episodes. I think it was just last episode we talked. About a budget, yeah, think so and so when you understand what revenue you need in order to hit your goals in your business, pay yourself what you want to pay yourself, invest in training. I think I mentioned to you last month I said that, like, Simon Sinek was doing some additional, yeah, certifications and, like, that's like, my dream team, Simon Sinek and Brene Brown was, like, anything they're into I'm up for, right? We didn't talk about that this year, and being able to invest in that. So it was something where I had to really, like, just say, You know what? No, that wasn't the priority. And I'm not going to get swept up into my emotions of wanting to do this, because you and I hadn't had a chance to talk about, was there a real plan for that? Because of we had some different goals this year. So that's where I'd say, like having that budget and understanding what goals you set up for yourself for this year is really important. So when you're saying the plan and then what's it going to take to also meet your expenses that you have this year based on what you want to execute on and cover the debt that you're going to take on,
Jennifer Baas 11:25
and that's something like you thinking through that and being patient and making a decision to wait. I think that's also culturally not overly common, because we have this very instant gratification kind of culture, and we can rationalize anything. And so that's the other piece with debt. Is that, not that it's all bad, and sometimes it is warranted. And maybe there's a scenario where you say, Hey, this is super important. I have a plan, because I'm going to generate more revenue with this training, that I am going to finance this on a credit card or on a line of credit. So it's not that that can't be the case, but the other option that we often don't even give ourselves is, let's save for that. Let's plan for that, like, let's make that a goal for q3 what can we do in q1 and q2 in order to be able to pay for that with cash flow? And so I think that's we sometimes almost put ourselves into an either or situation, where it's like, either we pay for it in debt or we don't do it. But there's oftentimes a third option. It just requires some patience, which I don't think we're as good at, because we want to do it now, and some planning and some thought around those things well.
Alecia St. Germain 12:39
And it's the possibility of this was the other thing I was saying is, when you jump into a scenario where there's, like, the marketing tactic that you think is going to work, or the AI tool that is going to make things go faster, or it could be anything that's presented in front of you, marketing has a sense of urgency around it that's going to make you want to act. And I want to be very clear, I did not make that decision easily, and that is not a decision I would have made five years ago. Five years ago, I would have been like, I need that. Yep, but I have worked on myself enough to know that that is a nice to have, that is a luxury that is, I'm sure I'm going to take something away from it. There's probably some notoriety that comes with being certified in that. And I'm also really good at what I do without it,
13:39
right? Absolutely.
Alecia St. Germain 13:41
So my point in sharing that is, people will jump into things because they don't want to miss the opportunity, or because they do see the value in it 100% but if I make that decision, then that's a scarcity based decision,
Jennifer Baas 14:02
and it's going to create a gap that's really hard to get out from underneath, which is, I think a lot of people end up having to use debt, not because it was like a conscious thought, but it was a lot of decisions where they either didn't have a plan or they didn't stick to the plan, and have that patience, and then all of the sudden things are snowballing. And really the only solution that they can see as well, I'm going to need to take out debt to make that work, right? And that's the mindset that's really, really common, right?
Alecia St. Germain 14:31
Well, and then the other side of that is there's this side of abundant thinking. It's a fallacy of abundant thinking that if I spend it like more will come. I have to just spend my money freely, and then more will come. And that's what I'm I think I'm really trying to express, or land on people is if you are spending thinking, this is the opportunity, I'm going to be abundant. I'm going to be free with my money, because you don't. Think it's going to be there later, or you're not enough, which is the undercurrent of that that is not abundant thinking, that is scarcity. Even though this whole idea of like, live like, you already have the money, okay, with a plan,
Jennifer Baas 15:18
with a plan, right? Right? It is kind of a both and like, we do have to stay rooted in the reality. I just had a conversation with a client this morning about this. Of, I think if we're too firmly in one camp or the other, it's really detrimental. But it's much easier to be in one camp or the other, to actually, like, walk in the tension of I want to be optimistic, and I want to step out in good faith, and I want to kind of put those things out there, doing that with the balance of but this is what the reality is. This is how much money I'm bringing in now. This is the framework that I need to operate in to stay whole, and that both and can be really, really tricky.
Alecia St. Germain 16:00
Yeah, well, so then the shift, then right in this particular scenario is, like you said, Okay, so that's something you want to do. We'll talk about it probably next time we're together. That's something you want to do. What is that investment? How will we save for that? And abundant thinking is knowing that when I'm ready, it will be there still. And if it's not, it's not, but abundant thinking would say, when I have that plan executed, it will still be there absolutely. So that was one piece of like where debt can be supportive also if, and I want to be clear, like, if we had excess and we're like, hey, let's just keep a slush fund, I absolutely would say yes right then, but we don't have that right now.
Jennifer Baas 16:55
And that's funny, that was the other thing that came to mind is when we think about building a business, a truly healthy whole business, I think a huge part of that is having a cadence of saving and creating that cushion. And so ideally you want to be in a position where, and again, that takes time. It's not something that happens overnight. It's not something that's easy to do. It does require patience, and it does require playing the long game. But if we can get to a point where it's culturally acceptable and encouraged to like, what if a business always has 20% of savings, like, what if they're just saving that, that actually enables you to move quickly and to be able to invest in things as they come up, and do it without debt and without adding something to the piece. So again, it's not that I think that that's always bad. Sometimes it's very useful and sometimes it's necessary, but I think we have polarized ourselves into like, a couple of options when there's other options, they just might take a little longer, take a little more hard work, take a little more discipline to create that and be able to cash flow things instead of having to reach for debt as the solution.
Alecia St. Germain 18:05
Do you think I'm really curious, because to me, debt secured by something like debt secured by real estate, or debt secured by an asset, an appreciating asset, or even debt with a depreciating asset like where you could, if you had to, you could sell it. You might take a small loss, but you would minimize it if things didn't go how you planned. That to me, seems less risky and better debt to carry, because it's usually lower interest too, right? Absolutely than unsecured credit, card debt, lines of credit, things like that. Because I think that some of that unsecured debt that we often use to invest in education, to invest in getting the business started up, or taking that business, I see it very often used as a way to improve things.
19:06
Yeah, very frequently
Alecia St. Germain 19:09
get some ads for social media and, like, put it on the credit card because it's supposed to increase, but so much of that is dependent on you being able to convert those sales. And to me that seems like a riskier way than secured debt. What do you have any thoughts around that
Jennifer Baas 19:29
I kind of agree and disagree? So in theory, in theory, yeah, like secured debt, at least you have an asset there. But if push comes to shove and things really turn sideways, you're going to lose that asset right. And so it's still not an ideal situation. I think real estate very typically, if it's bought right and the debt levels are appropriate, that's much safer. You also see people get incredibly upside down and in pretty big trouble on real estate deals that aren't structured the right way. Or when they've gone out and done big old cash out refies and leverage that thing to the hilt, and you can get yourself into some pretty serious trouble, even with secured debt. Okay, so I think if you play it to the end and look at the worst case scenario, neither is overly pretty. There's they're still pretty uncomfortable, but at least with an asset there, as long as it's appreciating and things, then it can it can be okay, things like cars, that's where I tend to be pretty careful, because they depreciate so fast that it's actually really common to end up upside down on car loans, especially if they're really heavily financed. So I think it kind of depends on the asset class and the amortization and things like that can go one way or the other.
Alecia St. Germain 20:44
Sure. All right, so ask me your question that you wanted to ask me, because I think I'm ready to now.
Jennifer Baas 20:52
Okay, I'll try to ask this in a clear way. So why do you think that people struggle to make the true business changes that will truly change how their business is working, and instead just continue to use debt to, like, plug the gap, yeah. Where is that mindset shift, where even when they might even agree, you might present them with all the information they might agree, you might leave the meeting feeling like, oh, like we're on the same page. And then from a behavior standpoint, the behavior doesn't change, and the picture keeps getting worse, and now they're getting coaching to see the picture like they're seeing the plane crashing, but they still keep doing the same things. That's what I'm really curious to hear your perspective on.
Alecia St. Germain 21:40
All right, so if I was going to say it in the most simple terms, I would say the pain of where they are is not greater than the pain of changing.
Jennifer Baas 21:50
And that actually makes total sense with debt, because I think one of the most dangerous things about debt is it insulates you from the pain. So let's say you're in a position where, like the business isn't doing well. You can't pay yourself. That's painful, or you have vendors hounding down your neck, painful that should inspire maybe a little more action. But you go and you take that loan out of that line of credit out it solves the pain point, so you're not feeling it in the way that you were before, right?
Alecia St. Germain 22:19
And then from this, there's a couple things, right? So if you can continue to get more and more and more debt, and there's no consequence, right? So if you have someone who owes vendors money and they're not paying, and those vendors are like, allowing it, like they're not escalating it in any way,
Jennifer Baas 22:46
or they're maybe staying, like, just caught up enough, like, I see that happen, where they're really aged with a vendor, but they're paying things just enough that the vendor isn't, like, drawing that Hard line, right?
Alecia St. Germain 23:00
Yeah. So again, there's a whole scarcity mirror that is happening, right? Because from the vendor side of things, or the consultant, or whoever it is, this is where I think, to some extent the banking industry, like, where you're getting more formalized types of loans, if you live in an area, and thinking back to like 2008 when everybody stopped paying their mortgages. And in some states, the foreclosure process was three months. And in some states like Ohio, the foreclosure process very slow, and then they were so inundated with so many homes that were not making payments on I think people were staying in their homes for somewhere between 18 months and three years, oh, wow, before losing their house. So when you are in a financial agreement where it's very clear what the consequences are, and the consequences are very swift, and it gets very uncomfortable very fast. People are going to prioritize paying off that debt, and they're going to get uncomfortable, and they're going to have to change something a lot faster than when you're talking about dealing human to human, and you've got one human's big assumptions and another human's big assumptions, right? And everybody's kind of functioning from a little bit of scarcity, and so the vendor or consultant doesn't want to press. And I know that there's business owners who have people who owe them money, clients who owe them money, if you are not clear on what's expected, what the penalties are for not paying on time. What happens if they don't pay? If work doesn't stop until it's paid? You're not offering any kind of consequence for that behavior, and so you're really you're facilitating, and you're teaching people how to treat you. Yeah. And so if someone is getting away with not paying and it's working, then it's working, and the pain is not greater. The pain of change is not greater than the pain of where they are. So like your value system says, I would never want to be behind on my payments. I would always want to pay things. But if someone else, that's not a value for them, and they're getting a need met. What's the incentive?
Jennifer Baas 25:28
Right? There is none. There is none, and that's where it can become catastrophic, though, because if the debt continues to grow and they haven't been motivated to make changes, how do you see that going or what would you say to that business owner who is in a cycle where they're not feeling the pain, and you can see like that, it's the Titanic an inch from the iceberg, but they don't, because they're up in the lounge having a cocktail at the bar. Right? What do you say to that business owner? Or do you just have to wait until it hits?
Alecia St. Germain 26:03
You have to wait until it hits like you can bring a horse to water, but you can't make them drink, right? Like it's so frustrating. Can see it right? Here's what I would say to you and to people like you, is, as long as they're fulfilling the agreement with you or with whoever it is. I mean, you can't make them listen. Now, if it's out of integrity for you, and you're like, I'm not gonna keep being part of this. That's one thing, I think, for people who are owed money, I think it really starts there, yeah, yeah. For people who are on money, and if you care about someone who is operating like this, as the person who's owed money, and you are not holding them accountable, and you are continuing to do the work like let it trickle in. You're not doing that person any favors. It's really not Compassionate Leadership, because a you're not being compassionate to yourself, because, and I'm not saying they owe like, whoever, like whatever this is, you're owed money, but like, this happens
27:08
to so it happens so often,
Alecia St. Germain 27:11
many business owners, I mean, you see their accounts receivables, like you've got the business owner who keeps taking on debt, but Then you also see the business owners who are holding
Jennifer Baas 27:23
the debt, they're subsidizing it, basically, yeah, yeah, because
Alecia St. Germain 27:26
you see their balance their books. So I think I want to speak more to the people who are holding that debt for other people, and say, like a you're not being compassionate to yourself because you are worthy of being paid, and for every client that doesn't pay you and doesn't paying you on time. Yeah, hardships happen, but you're not taking care of yourself and showing yourself compassion and turning all the love and support you have for other people inward, because that hurts you, and that hurt takes food off of your family's table, and even if it doesn't, if you continue to tolerate that behavior from someone, you're not forcing them to get better.
Jennifer Baas 28:15
That's a really interesting perspective, because I think for a lot of people, they see it as an act of kindness to not push it right. They're like, I'm going to give them some time. I know this and that the business has been struggling. And like, obviously there's a human side of if it is truly just a one off thing, be compassionate in that way. But there's a point where that's actually not compassion, and it's maybe being afraid of the confrontation, or we think it's compassion, but we're not actually doing anything to help that person fix those fundamental issues. When you
Alecia St. Germain 28:49
continue to tolerate that behavior from someone, you are holding them as incapable, and it is in the struggle this has been the theme we're going to talk about this on our 100th episode, or, I'm not sure when this is airing, but like we're getting ready to do our 100th episode. Amazing, but it's amazing to me how many people think struggle is like a bad
29:12
thing. Oh yeah,
Alecia St. Germain 29:15
and struggle is when we actually figure out what we're made of, who we are, what we're here for, what's important to us, and it, in a lot of ways, is the greatest gift. No great story comes from everything going perfectly.
Jennifer Baas 29:33
And I think a lot of people expect small business ownership to feel easy, and I think that might be also why they reach for debt, right? Because they don't want it to be hard. And I think, you know, we've talked about this before. We're in the social media era where what we see are the private jets and the fancy events and like these aspects that we think, Oh, that's what small business ownership looks like. It's. It's super fun and exciting and it's easy and it's anything but that. So I think you're right. I think people get in there and it feels hard and they think that something's wrong because it feels hard instead of leaning into that struggle.
Alecia St. Germain 30:15
Yeah, so taking on additional debt, it's an avoidance strategy, is what I see it as. It's avoiding the hard stuff. And it can be a strategic take on debt. To buy a property. I buy it, right? I rehab it, I turn around, I resell it. I make money. That's leverage,
Jennifer Baas 30:37
even in your example earlier, if you were like, Hey, I have a little bit of a cash flow gap these next couple of months, but come June, I'm gonna have a windfall. I'm gonna use the debt to do the certification, because I know in June, the money will be there again. So like solving specific problems, timing gaps, absorbing ups and downs that are routine and expected, right with a plan again, for repaying that I can really get behind and wrap my head around, but it's very easy for that to spiral out of control.
Alecia St. Germain 31:09
Yeah, you just have to have one thing not go as planned in situations like that. How often people think they're going to have that windfall and they don't
Jennifer Baas 31:19
absolutely like, 98% of the time. I mean, I hate to say it, but as entrepreneurs, we're eternally optimistic for the most part, and so I rarely see somebody like, beat a revenue goal, like, just sadly, because typically we're like, oh, this is going to come in. It's going to be amazing, and we're going to, like, quadruple this next year. That's just how we think, which is amazing in some ways, but a lot of times it doesn't come through.
Alecia St. Germain 31:47
Yeah, and so it can be challenging. So I'm not having this conversation about debt to say, like, debt is bad. I've used debt. No, I have been on every side of debt. I have been so in debt, but like barely making it by and worked myself out in my 20s, had plenty of money and never had to carry any debt, like been resistant to taking on debt and missed amazing opportunities, right? That had I taken on the debt and my family would be in a very different situation today. If that can happen, all of it, though, is based on where your money mindset is, and so that's why I think that it's really important, especially for people who are prone on one that's like, really prone to the feel good, dopamine spending. I love to invest in education. I love to learn new things. You know? I want to work with my favorite mentors. I want and there, it's always coming back to what the vision is and what's my purpose. That is, the very first thing that you always start everyone with is, what do we want your business to do for you?
Jennifer Baas 33:01
And I'll add to that. How do you want it to feel? Yeah, because, like, let's say that doing the certification takes you further towards your vision, but doing it with debt would add a lot of stress, because that's another thing that I see, is that there are some people who find debt to be incredibly stressful. There's some people who don't everybody's very different, but there's some people who, even with really appropriate debt, feel very uncomfortable carrying it. They don't like to owe people. Yeah, and so I think that's another aspect to take into consideration. Is there's like a peace tax too, where you might be able to accomplish a goal faster, but how does it make you feel? And that should factor into the equation as well. And I would agree
Alecia St. Germain 33:47
with that, with one caveat, that that's where big assumptions and Immunity to Change and rewiring the brain can support that. So like, if you are someone who's resistant to the debt and it makes you like your peace tax is high. There's a place where you can do some work to get more comfortable with that, so you can sleep at night. That makes sense. Yeah. So both sides, this is why we love to work together. Because, like, you bring the very practical side of it, and then I bring the very like science, Soul side of it, you're the strategy. I'm the science and the soul of like, how the brain's wired, and we're from a soul place where we're drawn to and yeah, I think it makes sense.
Jennifer Baas 34:32
Yeah, absolutely. And seeing both sides of that, and that's a great point, that just because that's what someone's mindset currently is doesn't mean that's where it has to stay, and that might unlock opportunities that they would miss, yeah,
Alecia St. Germain 34:47
and so much of that just comes from, like I said, my experience of being a big spender retracting to the like my husband and I. Are such polar opposites on how we feel about money, and it's funny how we share the same values. Like, opposites attract, right? We share the same values, but like, he's like, no debt. Debt is bad. Like, save, save, save. And if all you do is save money, you don't keep up with inflation, and so you're actually losing money every time you save. And then on the flip side, there was me in my 20s. Was like that money is easy to make. Money, that was my mindset. Money is easy to make. I still believe that, but just because money is easy to make so I can spend freely. And what I've come to now is money is easy to make, but have a plan, like, let's we demand. I don't have to spend anything right now, I can always take a beat, slow down, decide, Is this really necessary? Is this what I really need, or am I trying to make myself feel better, right? And so it's interesting
Jennifer Baas 36:01
how much that pause can be helpful, Yeah, or like, is it just that quick dopamine hit that we're looking for? Or like, when we pause, add it to the Amazon cart, but wait, right? What like do we end up coming back to it, making a case for it? Or are we, do we forget about it, right? So that's the pause I feel like is really helpful, the taking the time to think through and construct the plan. What does it mean? What are the consequences down the road? And you might land at the point where it makes sense to do with that, but yeah, at least you're having that time to think through it, and it's more of a response instead of a reaction.
Alecia St. Germain 36:37
And I think the question to ask yourself, really is, what's my intention in spending this if it comes from a place of it's not enough. I don't know enough like that is a very tricky place to be, and I think that's why this time, I could slow down enough to say, yeah, everything works well in my coaching without this particular piece. And it's a nice to have. It's not a need to have me five years ago who didn't feel enough, who was struggling with imposter syndrome, would have thought, I need this in order to hold my authority or validate myself to other people, right? And at this point in my life, the experience, the life experience, the certifications that I already do have, the infrastructure we've built out the partnership with you, like it's I love what we get to do for people. And so it really changed it to a nice to have
Jennifer Baas 37:51
That's amazing. Yeah, absolutely. And then something we can plan around, which is great,
Alecia St. Germain 37:56
exactly, exactly. So any final thoughts around this conversation. I think
Jennifer Baas 38:04
that's super powerful, but I think it can be powerful in both good and bad ways. So yeah, I think people taking a beat to kind of think through why they have it and what purpose it's serving. Is it plugging a hole or putting a band aid on making them not feel the pain, or is it serving a really targeted purpose? I think that's really the piece that's clicking for me.
Alecia St. Germain 38:28
Yeah, well, and on the flip side, this is just coming to me. You and I had talked about, I said I really wanted to invest in some legal stuff this year. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Because there was some things that I felt I just wanted to shore up for the protection of the business. And then when the opportunity came to do that, I did act on that immediately, yes, absolutely.
Jennifer Baas 38:55
Because we had the plan
Alecia St. Germain 38:56
around we had the plan around it, and the money was there. So just two sides of the coin. I just thought of it not to bring it up right at
Jennifer Baas 39:03
the end there, but no, but that's huge. That's why the plan is so powerful. And also, you could throw out a situation. I actually had this come up with a client last week. They were really concerned about increasing some hours for some staff, and they're like, this wasn't the plan, because last year, revenue had been a big struggle, and they've been behind, and it was really tough. They'd had to compress this year. I think they've already hit 50% of their sales goal in the first three months. So a completely like, wildly different situation, and that's where the plan has to be a little open fingered too, because actually they have exceeded. They have more revenue. They have more money. They absolutely can deviate from that personnel plan, because their revenue has deviated in the right way. So it is looking at that full picture and how all the pieces fit together, where it would actually be the wrong move for them to not hire the support that they need in this moment. Even though the plan was to not do that
Alecia St. Germain 40:03
at this time. Yeah, so I love that flexibility. We're actually going to be jumping into the plan. I like to call it your financial capacity plan. It's a budget. It's a budget we're jumping into that next month in the financial leadership lab that you run and helping everyone in there get some handle on a plan for themselves for the year. So if this conversation is interesting to you and you would like to get more of Jen's time work intimately in our little group, that is an option for you, I would suggest that you reach out. We start with a capacity assessment and really looking at the different places in your capacity that you might be stretched, because sometimes things will show up as a financial limitation, but it's actually being caused by something in the way that you're thinking about things, or it truly is a financial limitation, and the financial capacity lab can help address that with you, just by some really good planning and some better practices around money. So if that's something that interests you, I want to encourage you to reach out and schedule a capacity assessment. Call with me at conscious edge.com, forward slash capacity, and that will help plug you in to this whole ecosystem around increasing your capacity for what you can hold, and really have more of these conversations with Jen myself and the other entrepreneurs in the group. So with all of that being said, I'm sending you so much love. Thanks for listening to the conscious edge podcast. Make sure you subscribe and take a moment to be kind and share this episode with someone you care about. Leave a review to help us bring more compassionate leaders, building businesses and creating wealth. To the table and For show notes, head over to conscious edge. COMM, forward slash podcast. This podcast and the linked materials are presented solely for general information, educational and entertainment purposes, and should not be taken as personal or medical advice or any kind of mental health treatment, please consult a medical or mental health professional if you feel you need such services. Please be advised that all investing and entrepreneurial endeavors involve risk, and the use of the education and information on this podcast and linked materials is at the user's own risk.
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